Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: D8071EC2C4C44D96BDC97FC98274EDF6D1CD
• Reference Number: GZZL-4M

Notes:

Dear Richard:

I had cause to investigate some members of the Baker family and found what might be an error when I compared what I found on the IGI with an entry submitted to your site.

It concerns John Baker, born abt 1720, son of Thomas Baker and Dorothy Gilbert. In the past he has been associated with the marriage to Elizabeth Hill but the IGI indicates that this John married Eleanor Brown, 13 Oct 1745, Folkestone. They had the following children, all Folkestone: Sarah chr 13 Apr 1747 Ellen chr 10 Mar 1749 d. 31 Mar 1751 Edmund chr 19 Apr 1751 d. 18 Sep 1751 Edmund chr 17 Jul 1752 John chr 26 Jan 1755 Ellen or Helen chr 8 Jul 1757 Mary chr 5 Mar 1760 Ann chr 28 May 1762

Edmund (1752) married Margaret Smith, 11 Oct 1774 and had

John chr 13 Mar 1778 Margaret chr 7 Nov 1779 (all records again for Folkestone) John married Elizabeth but there are two possibilities here and I have a contact who is working on this.

I stress that the above records are what I have gleaned from the IGI and thus should be verified by a 'Baker expert'- but the John Baker who married Elizabeth Hill in 1757 is given as born abt 1732 so definitely not the John born 1720.

Best wishes

Jane E. Marshall

------

Neil Harvey (Email: nharvey.keytechuk@btinternet.com) writes:

Hi,

If I may add my two pennyworth to this debate, the Folkestone Gedcom has two Johns, but some confusion!

John Baker chr 2 Oct 1720, son of Thomas Baker (Jan 1681) & Dorothy Gilbert, is shown:-

Marriage 1 13 Oct 1745 Eleanor Brown

Marriage 2 13 Feb 1757 Elizabeth Hill

John Baker chr 3 March 1724/5, son of Edmund Baker (Dec 1691) & Sarah (Unknown) is shown:

Marriage 13/10/1745 Eleanor Brown.

Obviously (at least) one of the entries is incorrect but the additional data might help in resolving the issue.

I have just found and posted four children for the John Baker & Elizabeth Hill marriage. There are also a number of children in the gedcom of the John Baker/Eleanor Brown marriage (though you do not seem to have this marriage or the children, the entries check out with the IG records).

This now shows that:-

The John Baker/Elizabeth Brown marriage was producing children from 1747-1762.

John Baker & Elizabeth Hill were married 13 Feb 1757 and producing children from 1760 to 1766.

If we rule out bigamy, it would seem it is NOT possible that one John was the husband of both. Therefore the question seems to be, if these are the right two Johns, which was which?

In the gedcom only the Oct 1720 John is shown married to Elizabeth Hill (whereas both are shown married to Eleanor), which might suggest the Mar 1724/5 John as the husband of Eleanor. Inconveniently, the earlier John would then have the later marriage (he would have been 37 on marriage), so no clear clue there.

Do you have any additional data which might help in resolving the issue?

All the best,

Neil





Died:
Note

John married Eleanor BROWN on 13 Oct 1745 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. Eleanor and died. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: 9EF5F0A05F44444A980FCD10F4E7042CE31D
• Occupation: Twice Mayor of Folkestone
• Alt. Death: Aft 6 Aug 1756; (Will Dated), Folkestone, Kent, England

Notes:

According to Shelley Haigger: "Looking at some of the BAKERs on your website, I think that you may be interested in the following (from ancient monumental inscriptions etc.):

Thomas BAKER died Sep 1756 age 75. Twice mayor. Left 2 sons and 4 daughters - Thomas, John, Mary, Elizabeth, ........, ........... ."





Buried:
Note

Thomas married Dorothy GILBERT on 7 Jan 1708 in Postling, , Kent, England. Dorothy was born in 1677 in Chartham, , Kent, England; was christened on 3 Jan 1677 in Chartham, , Kent, England; died on 22 Mar 1761 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: DE286D4B7335491F8DC70FA3D6055F5E6C7E
• Reference Number: GZZK-XM-3

Notes:

Gilbert, Dorothy Death : 22 Mar 1761 Folkstone, Kent, England Gender: Female Parents: Father: Gilbert, John Mother: POOLYN, Dorothy

Family: Marriage: 7 Jan 1707/8 in Postling, Kent, England Spouse: BAKER, Thomas Death : aft 6 Aug 1756 (Will Dated), Folkestone, Kent, England Gender: Male Parents: Father: BAKER, Robert Mother: CHAPMAN, Mary

Children: BAKER, Mary BAKER, Elizabeth BAKER, Ann BAKER, Thomas BAKER, Susanna BAKER, John

Other Events and Attributes:

• _PPEXCLUDE: noneF
• _UID: F4B5F980D7FF46F4B597E0ABAA5C7EE3704D
• Occupation: Inn Holder
• Reference Number: HO13-PM

Notes:

Name: Robert BAKER -902 Birth: 1642

According to notes provided by Paul Foulger: Robert Baker was an Innholder who "w. 27 June 1706"

Burried Bef 10 Oct. 1706 (Will Probated)


See also: http://home.att.net/~kvaars/genealogy/dat78.htm





Alt. Death:
Note

Buried:
Note

Robert married Mary CHAPMAN on 11 Jun 1667 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. Mary (daughter of Stephen (Steven) CHAPMAN and Margaret ELGAR) was born in 1644 in Folkestone, , Kent, England; died in 1714 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: AF26F5735D8145CF91FA22003BFB7A8F1BD1
• Reference Number: HO13-QS

Notes:

Mary (b1644) married Robert BAKER (b Abt 1642) in Folkestone, Kent on 11 June 1667. They had 13 children and the list goes on and on.

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: FA4729D41A5E4A44A39B211ECFBBE095C0C8
• Reference Number: HO19-72

Notes:

Buried:
Note

Thomas married Elizabeth SMEED on 21 Oct 1633 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. Elizabeth was born in 1603 in Folkestone, , Kent, England; died on 13 Dec 1668 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: 5EE3BBB051BB48D2B4D4BD9E919FDF41056E
• Reference Number: HO19-RS

Notes:

(Research):Elizabeth SMEED
Sex: F Born:
1603
Of Folkestone, Kent, England Parents: Source Information: IGI Film Number: 1761161; Also see IGI Film Number: 2034623

I have an alternative death date of 1688, but that is probably a typo.

Notes:

Married:
Elizabeth SMEED Sex: F Born:
1603
, England Marriage(s): Spouse:
Thomas BAKER Source Information: IGI Batch number: F791282 Sheet: 36

See also: Elizabeth SMEED Marriage(s): Spouse:
Thomas BAKER Marriage:
21 Oct 1633
Folkstone, Kent, England Source Information: IGI Batch number: 7129527 Sheet: 49

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: BA4E3A8A934C4B0E805086B4568052B1E7F9
• Name: Steven CHAPMAN
• Occupation: Mayor of Folkestone (three times); businessman
• Reference Number: HO12-6W

Notes:

According to notes by Vern Hall: "Stephen was successful in business and was Mayor of Folkestone three times, but best of all he closed the generation gap by naming in his 1679 will, 'My daughter Mary and my son-in-law Robert Baker.'"

From Shirley Watts: "I have never been happy with the reference to a Will in 1679 for the following reason.

In the booklet " Monumental Inscriptions" of St Mary and St Eanswythe published by the Folkestone and District Family History Soc there is an entry - Here lieth the body of Stephen CHAPMAN, Jvrate, 3 tms Maior of this Towne. He died March 1, 1676 Aged 82 yeares. In the Parish Register images which can now be seen on Findmypast.co.uk. Mr Stephen Chapman was buried on 15th March 1676. The later date is the end of their year ie 1676/7. There is a Will for Stephen Chapman of Folkestone dated 11th November 1676 and proved April 1677. Ref PRC17/74/90. He just describes himself as the elder. In it he names his sons Stephen and John and his granddaughter, Margaret daughter of John.

The 1679 Will is that of Stephen Chapman of Cheriton. He does name all the children listed. If he does give an occupation I can't read it. Ref PRC16/301 C3."

(Research):Name: Stephen CHAPMAN -964 Birth:



-------- From: "Annie and Bill (plus Liam ) Stuart" Subject: CHAPMAN etc Folkestone and Hythe Kent Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:52:26 +1000 X-Mailing-List: kentgene@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/kentgene/

Hello everyone, This is my first posting to the list. My Chapman ancestors mainly from the areas in the subject line are set out below. The numbers refer to the generations.

1 Thomas CHAPMAN

2 George CHAPMAN m Elizabeth ROFFE 14 2 1594 d: 20 7 1635

3 Steven CHAPMAN m Margaret ELGAR 02 8 1641

4 John CHAPMAN b: 02 2 1646 m Sussanah MULLETT 26 11 1672

5 Jn CHAPMAN b: 30 6 1682 m Rebecca OATES (b: 1684) m: 18 12 1707 d: 01 12 1760

6 John CHAPMAN b: 31 10 1708 m Elizabeth MUNDEN 16 8 1735 in Folkestone,Kent,UK

7 John CHAPMAN b: 06 11 1736 m Ann ?

8 William CHAPMAN b: 08 1 1766 d: 28 2 1826 m Elizabeth FULLER 23 4 1788

9 Fuller CHAPMAN b: 12 6 1811 in Folkestone,Kent,UK m Frances Ann TAMS (b: 1815 in Dover,Kent,UK )

10 William Fuller CHAPMAN b: 1843 in Folkestone,Kent,UK m Sarah ANSELL( b: 1854 in Cheltenham,Gloucestershire,UK) 01 10 1882 in Clerkenwell,Middlesex,UK. Children of William and Sarah CHAPMAN;- 1.Richard Fuller CHAPMAN b: 27 10 1883 in St.Giles,Reading,UK d: 1972 in Sydney,Australia m Anna Dorothy BEK 1921 Sydney, Australia.(my grandparents). 2 Laura Katharina CHAPMAN m Ivor AMBROSE. 3. Blanche Winifred CHAPMANb: 25 2 1885 in 38 North Street,Folkestone,Kent,UK d: 04 6 1954 in Greenlane Public Hospital,Epsom,Auckland,NZ. Never married. 4. Harriett Mansell CHAPMAN b: 1887 in Folkestone,Kent,UK m Roger GILES. If anyone connects with these people, I would love to hear from you. Annie Stuart. Sydney, Australia. billannieliam@bigpond.com.

My Elgar information is pretty limited as I have been concentrating more on the male lines, so all I know about Margaret Elgar is what is shown below.

Steven Chapman m: 02 8 1641 Margaret Elgar.Their children were:- 1. John Chapman b: 02 2 1646 m: 26 11 1672 Sussanah Mullett 2 Stephen Chapman b: 16 12 1642 m (1)Jane ? d: 19 8 1676 m(2)Cath Shotwater

Fuller Chapman b: 12 6 1811 in Folkestone,Kent,UK m Frances Ann Tams (b: 1815 in Dover,Kent,UK) . Their children were:- 1. Elizabeth Chapman m.James Waters 2 Frances Chapman m.Frank Simpson 3. William Fuller Chapman b: 1843 in Folkestone,Kent,UK m: 01 10 1882 in Clerkenwell,Middlesex,UK Sarah Mansell (b: 1854 in Cheltenham,Gloucestershire,UK Father: Richard Mansell)(my 2x greats) 3. Suzanna(or Susan) Tams Chapman b: 1851 4. Harriet Chapman b: 1856

If anyone connects with these people, I would love to hear from you. Annie Stuart. Sydney, Australia. billannieliam@bigpond.com

------ From: GorAdams@aol.com Subject: Re: CHAPMAN etc Folkestone and Hythe Kent Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:15:18 EDT X-Mailing-List: kentgene@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/kentgene/

Annie Stuart, I have ELGAR ancestors in Isle of Thanet, Kent, England, beginning with:

MY ELGAR LINE

Thomas ELGAR, Sr., b. ca 1783, Kent, England, d. Kent, married ca 1810, Kent
+ Mary BIRD, b. ca 1792, Kent, d. 14 Aug 1868, Kent. Children:
1. Elizabeth Mary ELGAR, b. ca 1811, Kent, d. 11 May 1876, New York City, USA,
married 26 Dec 1826, Thianet, Ramsgate, Kent,
+ Henry SACKETT, b. 16 Sept 1806, St. Lawrence, Ramsgate, Kent
d. 19 May 1851, New York City, USA. (My ancestor)
2. Margaret ELGAR.

(All the following children and their spouses d. after May 1881, and probably in England.)
3. Eliza Ann ELGAR, b. ca 1819, Kent, married
+ 12 Jan 1849, Ramsgate (?), Kent, James POWELL.
4. Thomas ELGAR, Jr., b. ca 1824, Kent, d. 30 Aug 1899, England, married,
+ 7 July 1845, Ramsgate (?), Kent, Elizabeth AYLESBURY, d. 24 Aug 1902, En
5. Sarah Ann ELGAR, b. ca 1826, Kent, married,
+ 13 Sept 1840, Ramsgate (?), John Christian JONES.
6. Caroline Elizabeth ELGAR, d. 11 Mar 1855, England, married,
+ 7 Sept 1846, Ramsgate (?), Thomas Bell JONES

I am researching the ancestry of this ELGAR line, and would gratefully appreciate any additions, corrections, etc. to the details shown above.

Gordon Adams in the Heart of Silicon Valley, California, USA GorAdams@aol.com ----- From: "Donna McQuade" Subject: Re: CHAPMAN etc Folkestone and Hythe Kent Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:03:43 -0400 X-Mailing-List: kentgene@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/kentgene/ Gordon Adams, Annie Stuart, and all,

I have several ELGARS in my file, from Kent and Surrey, who have married into my HARNETT family. I'm interested in sharing information.

My Elgar information is contained in the following outline report -- the spouses and children of Frances Harnett and Rosa Mary Harnett. We don't seem to have a connection, but maybe someone else on the list will have some Elgar information:

Descendants of Frank Harnett

1 Frank Harnett Born: August 1835 in Newington, Kent, England Died: Abt. 1891 in Bredley Manor, Woking, Surrey, England . +Catherine Sarah Wakeley Born: Abt. 1839 in Rainham, Kent, England Married: 1862 in Milton District Died: Unknown ... 2 Catherine Mary Harnett Born: Abt. 1864 in Newington, Kent, England Died: Unknown ....... +Arthur Harnett Born: Abt. 1865 in Newington, Kent, England Married: 1911 in Milton Reg. District Died: 1927 in Bromely, Kent, England ... 2 Grace Emily Harnett Born: Abt. 1865 in Newington, Kent, England Died: January 26, 1894 ... 2 Frank Edward Davies Harnett Born: Abt. 1866 in Newington, Kent, England Died: Abt. 1952 in Maidstone, Kent, England ....... +Kate Furber Born: 1869 Married: April 17, 1895 in Maidstone, Kent, England Died: Unknown ........ 3 Frank Furber Erskine Harnett Born: October 30, 1896 in Bearsted, Kent, England Died: April 05, 1956 in Charing, Kent, England ............ +Mabel Butcher Born: 1894 Married: February 12, 1923 in St. Nicolas Church, Linton, England Died: February 22, 1999 ........ 3 Dorothea Kate Harnett Born: February 21, 1898 in Bearsted, Kent, England Died: May 1984 ............ +John Barker Married: January 16, 1924 in Bearsted, Kent, England ........ 3 Arthur Norman Harnett Born: May 17, 1899 in Bearsted, Kent, England Died: 1985 ............ +Hilda Gladys Duke Married: April 22, 1930 in Bearsted, Kent, England ........ 3 Frances Stella Harnett Born: January 06, 1902 in Bearsted, Kent, England Died: 1964 ............ +Lawrence Betts Married: December 18, 1924 ........ 3 Charles Harnett Born: August 15, 1908 in Ott, Bearsted, Kent, England Died: January 1986 ............ +Celia Ellis Married: August 16, 1932 in Hollingburne, Kent, England ... 2 Frances Harnett Born: Abt. 1868 in Newington, Kent, England Died: December 23, 1950 ....... +Frederick Maylam Elgar Born: 1872 Died: 1947 ........ 3 G. Marjorie Elgar Born: Abt. 1900 Died: October 13, 1996 ........ 3 Joan Elgar Born: Unknown Died: Abt. 1992 ........ 3 Molly Elgar Born: Unknown Died: 1961 ... 2 Clifford Harnett Born: Abt. 1870 in Newington, Kent, England Died: Bef. 1881 ... 2 Alice Marion Harnett Born: 1871 in Newington, Kent, England Died: May 31, 1943 ... 2 Charles J. Harnett Born: Abt. 1873 in Newington, Kent, England Died: Unknown ... 2 Richard Howe Harnett Born: Abt. 1874 in Newington, Kent, England Died: January 27, 1938 ....... +Ida Geraldine Troughton Born: 1877 Married: July 26, 1913 in Woodside, Surrey, England Died: Unknown ........ 3 John Harnett Born: April 28, 1916 in Oscar House, Pelham Road, Gravesend, Kent, England ... 2 Mabel E. Harnett Born: Abt. 1876 in Newington, Kent, England Died: Unknown ... 2 Rosa Mary Harnett Born: Abt. 1877 in Woking, Surrey, England Died: June 12, 1958 ....... +Charles John Elgar Born: 1880 Died: 1946 ........ 3 Frank Edward Elgar Born: February 16, 1917 in Wingham, Kent, England Died: February 25, 1996 in Perry Orchard, Perry Road, Wingham, Kent, England ........ 3 Barbara Mary Elgar Born: Unknown Died: January 03, 1990 ... 2 Eleanor R. Harnett Born: Abt. 1880 in Woking, Surrey, England Died: Unknown

Donna McQuade Avon, CT, USA Researching HARNETT in Kent

-----

From: "Kevan M. Light" Subject: Folkestone Families Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:00:16 -0400 X-Mailing-List: kentgene@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/kentgene/

Hello Annie and Bill, since I saw your questions regarding your ancestors of Folkestone, I thought I'd send you my interests for Folkestone. Unfortunately I don't have any Chapman's from Folkestone, however I did find one in my family tree coming from Surrey. A Margaret Chapman who married Roger Cobbett probably in the 1940's.

My Folkestone families; BRICE Spicer FAGG Harris PUNNETT REED HOPKINS NUTLEY GOODMAN DELANOY EASTWICK MAY RYE HAWKIN SIMPSON BURNES EWART BOWBRICK

Do any names sound familiar to you ?? Thanks Kevan M. Light -----

Stephen married Margaret ELGAR on 2 Aug 1641 in Folkestone, , Kent, England. Margaret was born in 1620 in Folkestone, , Kent, England; died before 23 Apr 1679. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• _UID: 194F3FDABC75480D898B7963AD4E9BD56254
• Reference Number: HO16-SK

Notes:

(Research):From: "John Lilley" Subject: Re: CHAPMAN etc Folkestone and Hythe Kent Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:17:40 +0100 X-Mailing-List: kentgene@egroups.com X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/kentgene/

Steven CHAPMAN who married Margaret ELGAR is my 8xGreat Grandfather on my mothers side of the family. I am in the process of researching that side of the family at the moment and have only just come across the CHAPMAN's the other day, as I said, what a small world.

Steven and Margaret had 10 children in total, my line starts with their daughter Mary (b1644) who married Robert BAKER (b Abt 1642), they married in Folkestone Kent on the 11 June 1667. They had 13 children and the list goes on and on. If you are interested, once I have compiled my findings, I will send you a copy. Ok. Regards, John Lilley

-----

From: John Streeter Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:34:28 +0100 X-Mailing-List: kentgene@egroups.com

Re ELGAR, - my maternal great-grandmother was Sarah ELGAR, born abt 1851, possibly at Tilmanstone, Kent? and died abt 1930. Sarah married Stephen FOAD, 23 December 1876 and they had 7 children one of whom Stephen Herbert FOAD was my maternal grandfather. Unfortunately I very little about Sarah's parents, not even their names, except that her father was supposed to have died when she was a child. Sarah's mother was b. circa 1809-10 at Tilmanstone Kent, d. 1914, 4 days after Stephen FOAD, Sarahs spouse, when she was 104! I know of no bro's or sis's. Does this tie up with any other data? Regards John Streeter, also researching FOAD and DEVESON.

----

GorAdams@aol.com wrote:

I have ELGAR ancestors in Isle of Thanet, Kent, England, beginning with:

Thomas ELGAR, Sr., b. ca 1783, Kent, England, d. Kent, married ca 1810, Kent
+ Mary BIRD, b. ca 1792, Kent, d. 14 Aug 1868, Kent.

Do you or anyone else on this list wish to exchange ELGAR info? Thanks. Gordon Adams: GorAdams@aol.com

----


Died:
Note

Notes:

Married:
IGI Film 1761125